Mamoswine

The following set is on Smogon, but I thought off it long before they got their tiers sorted out.

MamoLanche ala Maxz

Mamoswine @ Leftovers
Adamant)
252 Attack/252 HP/6 Defense

-Earthquake
-Avalanche
-Ice Shard
-Curse

What it Does:
Mamoswine has respectable speed, but respectable can only take you so far. Instead of pushing Swine further than it wants to go into running around, weakening it's other stats, this set just accepts its speed.
STABed Avalanche when executed properly can be devastating at 120 base damage, boosted by Swine's maximum 394 attack is... nasty, to be frank. Earthquake is a great move with plenty of coverage, and when STABed, is also pretty beastly. Ice Shard is extremely helpful at wiping out Sashers and Endurers as well as OHKOing a Salamence/Garchomp with no damage taken after a single EQ.
Curse increases it's tanking abilities as well as, if used enough, making Ice Shard a respectable move on it's own. It also jams extremely well with Avalanche, were both the extra Defense for taking the first hit and Attack for hitting back are welcomed, and the loss of Speed makes no difference. I've called mine Fluffalump, on a completely random note.

How to Beat it:
Mamoswine has a large array of mainly special weaknesses and with Mamoswine's base 60 Sp. Defense to combine with this, we have a lot of OHKOs from various moves. Energy Ball and Grass Knot (especially the latter, due to the Swine's large weight) from anything with half decent Sp. Attack will end it. Surf, Flamethrower and Aura Sphere are also viable options, leaving Starmie open to switch in on an Ice move (Avalanche only has base 60 power on a switch) or Curse for minimal damage and Surf away. The same applies for any Sp. Fire Pokemon. Bronzong is also a perfect counter, Levitating above EQ and resisting both Ice moves while hitting back with STABed, Super Effective Gyro Balls (thanks to noodles for this).

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SweeperSwine ala Maxz

Mamoswine @ Salac Berry
252 Atk, HP/Speed Balance in need of further consultancy
Adamant

-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Ice Fang
-Endure

What it Does:
This set tries to get Mamoswine on the move a bit more than MamoLanche. Earthquake and Ice Fang (sadly Mamoswine's only other Physical Ice move other than Avalanche and has a measly Base 65 Power, but at least it doesn't completely ignore all speed boosts and go last) are for basic STAB moves and have really quite a decent coverage alone. Stone Edge is there for more coverage, hitting Gyarados a lot harder than anything else, as well as hitting a fair few 'Mon for x4 Damage, e.g. Charizard, Yanmega, Articuno. Endure is for Mamoswine's Salac boosted sweep and unlike a lot of other Endurers, Swine can handle both Sandstorm and Hail, making staying alive of 1HP a lot easier. Mamoswine's bulky enough before it has to Endure to do some serious damage, so it should be used as a last resort.

How to Beat it
Until it gets down to 1HP, a hard hit from any of its weaknesses, especially special ones, should really hurt as this set isn't as bulky as MamoLanche and doesn't have access to a Defensive boost, making Physical moves such as Close Combat far more threatening choices. All the weaknesses from the previous set still apply here, but this set comes at risk from any priority move, and if Roared out while Stealth Rocks are in play, cannot switch in without dying instantly. All the threats from MamoLanche still apply, especially Bronzong.

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MamoBand - Coming soon.

First set's fine, though you missed the obvious counter - Bronzong. It resists all of its attacks and can hit back with STAB, SE Gyro Balls. Mamoswine is still faster even after 6 curses.

I'm not so convinced about the second set...the Salac berry will allow it outspeed anything upto base 125s, dependant on EV investment, yet it's not going to OHKO many of them. This is a serious problem when you're hanging on 1HP. You may as well just use a Scarf since the inability to switch attacks is a small price to pay for at least 360 more HP.

Overall though, you're probably best packing a Choice Band and just spamming Ice Shard.

noodles wrote:

First set's fine, though you missed the obvious counter - Bronzong. It resists all of its attacks and can hit back with STAB, SE Gyro Balls. Mamoswine is still faster even after 6 curses.

I'm not so convinced about the second set...the Salac berry will allow it outspeed anything upto base 125s, dependant on EV investment, yet it's not going to OHKO many of them. This is a serious problem when you're hanging on 1HP. You may as well just use a Scarf since the inability to switch attacks is a small price to pay for at least 360 more HP.

Overall though, you're probably best packing a Choice Band and just spamming Ice Shard.

I'll add Bronzong as a Counter. The second set is admittedly slightly novelty, but it isn't actually based around the sweep. It aims to do a fair bit of damage before it gets down to 1 HP, then use the sweep as a last resort.

e.g.

X=Faster than Mamosine

X used Attack on Mamoswine, Mamoswine lost 55% of its health.

Mamoswine used EQ, X lost 70% of its health.

Normally Mamoswine would either die or have to switch out next turn, but with this set it can Endure up and finish the Pokemon.

I'll add a Choice Band set soon and I'm also pondering an Amnesia set... I know it's got a far few special based weaknesses, so d'you think it's worth the effort? It's certainly be a surprise.

I'll add Bronzong as a Counter. The second set is admittedly slightly novelty, but it isn't actually based around the sweep. It aims to do a fair bit of damage before it gets down to 1 HP, then use the sweep as a last resort.

e.g.

X=Faster than Mamosine

X used Attack on Mamoswine, Mamoswine lost 55% of its health.

Mamoswine used EQ, X lost 70% of its health.

Normally Mamoswine would either die or have to switch out next turn, but with this set it can Endure up and finish the Pokemon.

I'll add a Choice Band set soon and I'm also pondering an Amnesia set... I know it's got a far few special based weaknesses, so d'you think it's worth the effort? It's certainly be a surprise.[/quote]
That damage example just shows how little this set is thought through. 55% would probably be from something with a fairly pathetic attack. Besides, anything that does between 50% and 75% damage to it can get a second hit in and kill it without activating the Salac.

A Timid Starmie does 138% minimum with Surf and Choice Specs or 111% with an Expert Belt, either way, it's a guarenteed OHKO before Mamoswine can get an Endure/Salac Boost off. There are a million other attacks that will do the same or even 2HKO. That's also irrelevant of Stealth Rock damage.

Perhaps this set would have more merit by putting more EVs into the defences? Putting 128 into SP. DEF with a Careful nature would allow it to survive an Expert Belt Starmie's Surf and get the speed boost. The other EVs can either go into ATK or DEF as there is less threat from physical attacks. Without such investment, its just going to die without achieving anything.

noodles wrote:

Maxz wrote:

I'll add Bronzong as a Counter. The second set is admittedly slightly novelty, but it isn't actually based around the sweep. It aims to do a fair bit of damage before it gets down to 1 HP, then use the sweep as a last resort.

e.g.

X=Faster than Mamosine

X used Attack on Mamoswine, Mamoswine lost 55% of its health.

Mamoswine used EQ, X lost 70% of its health.

Normally Mamoswine would either die or have to switch out next turn, but with this set it can Endure up and finish the Pokemon.

I'll add a Choice Band set soon and I'm also pondering an Amnesia set... I know it's got a far few special based weaknesses, so d'you think it's worth the effort? It's certainly be a surprise.

That damage example just shows how little this set is thought through. 55% would probably be from something with a fairly pathetic attack. Besides, anything that does between 50% and 75% damage to it can get a second hit in and kill it without activating the Salac.

A Timid Starmie does 138% minimum with Surf and Choice Specs or 111% with an Expert Belt, either way, it's a guarenteed OHKO before Mamoswine can get an Endure/Salac Boost off. There are a million other attacks that will do the same or even 2HKO. That's also irrelevant of Stealth Rock damage.

Perhaps this set would have more merit by putting more EVs into the defences? Putting 128 into SP. DEF with a Careful nature would allow it to survive an Expert Belt Starmie's Surf and get the speed boost. The other EVs can either go into ATK or DEF as there is less threat from physical attacks. Without such investment, its just going to die without achieving anything.

It wasn't the best of examples, but Mamo can survive a neutral physical attack or two, as opposed to a SE Special one. It'd most likely switch into something like a Dragon Claw (or even Outrage, but most Outrages come from Scarfed 'Mon which would outspeed Mamo anyway) from a Mence or Chomp and take over 50% damage but not kill it and Endure down to out speed (provided it's not Scarfed) and OHKO with Ice Fang.

You seem to be assuming you'd switch this into a Starmie, and would therefor need to deal with its STABed SE Expert Belt Boosted Surf. It'd switch in on something it could take, speed up on that and be able to take something like Starmie out with an EQ. If Starmie did switch in on Mamo, you could simply Endure down and outspeed it then. In a nutshell, there is no way Mamoswine would get knocked out with Starmie's Surf unless you deliberately switched in on it... or unless it were Scarfed.

Maxz wrote:

It wasn't the best of examples, but Mamo can survive a neutral physical attack or two, as opposed to a SE Special one. It'd most likely switch into something like a Dragon Claw (or even Outrage, but most Outrages come from Scarfed 'Mon which would outspeed Mamo anyway) from a Mence or Chomp and take over 50% damage but not kill it and Endure down to out speed (provided it's not Scarfed) and OHKO with Ice Fang.

You seem to be assuming you'd switch this into a Starmie, and would therefor need to deal with its STABed SE Expert Belt Boosted Surf. It'd switch in on something it could take, speed up on that and be able to take something like Starmie out with an EQ. If Starmie did switch in on Mamo, you could simply Endure down and outspeed it then. In a nutshell, there is no way Mamoswine would get knocked out with Starmie's Surf unless you deliberately switched in on it... or unless it were Scarfed.

ScarfChomp will still outrun you after a Salac boost and can still do a massive amount of damage If it's Choice Banded, it'll 2HKO without activating your Salac.

Starmie vs. Mamo without any switching in or whatever:
Mamoswine used Endure
Starmie used Surf (99%)
Mamoswine endured the hit
Salac Berry raised Mamoswine's speed
Mamoswine used Earthquake (Cannot OHKO without a CH)
Starmie used Surf
Mamoswine fainted!

Realistically, the only thing it's coming in on is an Electric attack or the rare Poison one (not Toxic though!). It's far more likely to come in after a 'mon has fainted - it's hardly a revenge killer without Ice Shard though.

I'm not denying that this can get a shot off ever, just that I don't really think that its a worthwhile set. It largely relys on hanging on 1HP and OHKOing everything, which just isn't happening. It's OHKO ability is rather limited by it's type coverage. Nearly every team will have at least 2 'mon that can survive it's hits.

noodles wrote:

ScarfChomp will still outrun you after a Salac boost and can still do a massive amount of damage If it's Choice Banded, it'll 2HKO without activating your Salac.

Starmie vs. Mamo without any switching in or whatever:
Mamoswine used Endure
Starmie used Surf (99%)
Mamoswine endured the hit
Salac Berry raised Mamoswine's speed
Mamoswine used Earthquake (Cannot OHKO without a CH)
Starmie used Surf
Mamoswine fainted!

Realistically, the only thing it's coming in on is an Electric attack or the rare Poison one (not Toxic though!). It's far more likely to come in after a 'mon has fainted - it's hardly a revenge killer without Ice Shard though.

I'm not denying that this can get a shot off ever, just that I don't really think that its a worthwhile set. It largely relys on hanging on 1HP and OHKOing everything, which just isn't happening. It's OHKO ability is rather limited by it's type coverage. Nearly every team will have at least 2 'mon that can survive it's hits.

I guess I overestimated Mamoswine's power, assuming it could OHKO an average Starmie with EQ... If it can't even do than, then I fully accept your view. It'd be okay for late game sweeping, but not really worth it when compared to what else Mamo can do.

I don't particularly want to completely delete it as it took a fair while to write, but I think it should be made clear it's more of a novelty.

Oh, and sorry for the long reply. I've been in London town for the past few days.

I'm considering an Amnesia Swine, but before I go ahead and spend half an hour writing it (which I should be spending on my Geog CW anyway), is it worth it? I don't want to put the effort in for nothing.

Maxz wrote:

I'm considering an Amnesia Swine, but before I go ahead and spend half an hour writing it (which I should be spending on my Geog CW anyway), is it worth it? I don't want to put the effort in for nothing.

Not really to be honest. Mamoswine just doesn't work as any kind of defensive/support Pokemon, despite its decent HP. It's rubbish defences, lack of a recovery move, Stealth Rock weakness and large amount of weaknesses all help see that this is true.

You could possibly get away with running Light Screen as at least it'll help the whole team, but it's better to just have another team use it and let Mamoswine reap the benefits to be honest.

Mamoswine should always focus on the offense really.

Thank you. I've still got the more obvious Choice Band Swine to add.